UPDATED SEPTEMBER 29, 2009

    There have been a lot of questions regarding our world record attempt and Mexico's world record attempt. On this page, I will try to elaborate on everything, chronicling the issue from beginning to end. On this page, you will read:

1) WHAT HAPPPENED

2) OUR RESPONSE

3) WHAT WE DO NOW

4) CONCLUSION

WHAT HAPPENED

    For months, we, the Dragon*Con Thriller Team, had been planning for our world record breaking place to happen during Dragon*Con. Our attempt was being planned before Michael Jackson even passed away. We were chugging along with thoughts of beating the current record holders (at that time), William and Mary College, who had 242 people. Everything was looking hopeful. In the wake of Michael Jackson's death on June 25th, many tributes and record breaking attempts popped up all of a sudden and all over the place. Many places wanted to have these events on Michael Jackson's birthday, August 29, which unfortunately was just one week before the attempt we had been planning for months in advance. These places included Mexico, Spain, and England.

    At a very early point in time, Mexico was claiming to have outrageous numbers of folks promising to dance. A reporter, after witnessing one of these rehearsals, quoted the number but followed up by saying that only 50 people were at the rehearsal and there was "mass chaos". Because of this report, we felt like their estimate for dancers come August 29th was extremely hopeful and very exaggerated. With word of only 50 people rehearsing and mass chaos, we did not let Mexico's threat phase us at all.

    We all wake up on August 29th, ready to stalk the internet for any information on these record attempts. It was very reminiscent of election day with different totals and locations being called out. When all was said and done, it appeared that England had 475, Spain had 800, and Mexico claimed 13,957.

    At first, we were extremely discouraged! There was no way we could beat 13,957 people at Dragon*Con, but we remained positive and optimistic and gave the participants a pat on the back saying, "Hey, atleast they won't look as good as we do!" This was in reference to all of the costumes people wear at Dragon*Con. However, we were to soon discover what may actually be our saving grace: a possible broken rule, something that could actually disqualify Mexico! Morale immediately improved.

     View Mexico's attempt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj82qkrdhRs

    As videos began to pop up on YouTube, we discovered that both Mexico and Spain danced to the music video version, not the 5:58 single version of "Thriller". The music video version is over 10 minutes long, with only 2:40 worth of dancing. In addition, the dancers do not dance for the entire song, but rather the Michael Jackson impersonator does all of the zombie moves. Not only that, but guidelines state that dancers must dance from the beginning of the song until the end of the song to which they also did not do per Guinness guidelines. After frantically looking over the requirements again and again, dissecting each word, we realize that Mexico could possibly be denied the world record. Kimber McDermott, one of the organizers, had been working with Guinness at length since May and even had her husband/lawyer analyze the official legal requirements to achieve the world record. It was agreed: Mexico did not follow all of the rules and we still had a chance! All we needed to beat was England's 475.... or so we thought.

    The guidelines were as follows:

1. The number of people who are hoping to constitute the record must all be well versed in the dance moves.

2. A loud start and finish signal recognized by all participants must be used. Two experienced timekeepers (e.g. from a local athletics club) must time the attempt with stopwatches accurate to 0.01 seconds.

3. All participants must dance from the start to the end of the song.

4. The original Michael Jackson's Thriller (USA) music must be played loud enough for all participants to hear.

5. The original dance movements from the Thriller movie must be performed by all participants.

6. Participants may be in a single line; any number of lines or in any other arrangement.

7. All participants must be performing the same routine simultaneously, thus all participants must be able to either see instructors or follow their movements on a video screen.

8. The chosen dance area must be large enough to not only hold the people but to allow them to dance unrestricted the required steps.

    What's in question are guidelines 3, 5 and 7. This will be detailed below.

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    To further verify, Kimber also contacted organizers of similar events: Ines Markeljevic from ThrillTheWorld.com, Kevin Dua from William and Mary College, and Anand Bhatt who led the Leicester, England attempt. They all repeated the same thing: Guinness told them the 5:58 minute version was to be used and all dancers were to dance the entire time.

    By the start of Dragon*Con, Guinness had not made an official ruling regarding Mexico. That in itself gave us hope, because apparently an adjudicator from Guinness was actually present for the Mexico attempt. By doing that, their results should be somewhat expedited, but yet there was no word. We held our heads high and went ahead as planned. In under three hours, 903 people learned the dance and then executed it!

View our attempt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA8RZCL5jTE

 

OUR RESPONSE

    On September 18th, Guinness World Records made Mexico's attempt official. Fearing that this would happen, Kimber's husband, the lawyer, had a letter already prepared just in case. The following letter has been sent to them. In this letter, he addresses the inconsistencies by Guinness, who changed the rules in the middle of the game. He also offers a compromise: Give us the record we so rightfully deserve, but give Mexico their own record. What Mexico did was indeed impressive, but was not by the guidelines for OUR record. After Dragon*Con and the organizers have put up roughly $1,000 for this event - with the rules we were provided - it just boils down to a matter of principle.

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Dear Guinness World Records,

I am writing this letter on behalf of the organizer for claim #264065, Kimber McDermott, (the “Organizer”) to address some concerns that have arisen with the recent actions by Guinness World Records Limited (“GWR”) concerning the record for the greatest number of people simultaneously performing the dance from the video of Michael Jackson’s Thriller at a single venue (the “Record”) and to provide what we feel would be a solution to the concerns that would benefit both GWR and the Organizer.

The Organizer registered for an attempt to break the Record and received from GWR the “Specific Guidelines Pack” (the template for this set of guidelines was dated July 18, 2009) that contained both (i) specific guidelines for ‘Largest “Thriller” Dance’ and (ii) general ‘Mass Participation – Single Venue’ Guidelines (the “Guidelines”). The instructions for the Guidelines say in the second paragraph:

“These guidelines are specific to your attempt and must be followed. Should any guideline be contravened, your attempt will be disqualified, without any right of appeal.” (emphasis in the original document)

Because of that language, the Organizer took pains to carefully read and understand all of the Guidelines for the specific attempt and mass participation guidelines. The Organizer further consulted former record holders of the Record and GWR (through the $700 process) to ensure that an accurate interpretation of the Guidelines was used in the record attempt in Atlanta, Georgia on September 6, 2009 (the “Attempt”).

Prior to submitting the required supporting evidence to document the Attempt to GWR, the Organizer received an email on September 15, 2009, from GWR stating that the Record now belonged to a group from Mexico City that performed the dance on August 29, 2009 (the “Mexico Attempt”). After review of the many legal copies of the Mexico Attempt that can be found on various websites including, but not limited to, http://www.youtube.com, the Organizer was concerned that there were many instances where the Mexico Attempt did not meet the specific guidelines that the Organizer had received for the Record. While we cannot verify whether many of the guidelines may have been met, a cursory examination of the multiple videos posted on the Internet shows that the Mexico Attempt appears to have failed to meet at least two specific guidelines for the Record.

Specific Guideline #4 – The original Michael Jackson’s Thriller (USA) music must be played loud enough for all participants to hear.

There are different versions of the “Thriller” song, however the generally accepted USA music is the recorded version that lasts for 5:58. This is widely available on compact disc and in mp3 formats, and is the version from the record breaking album of the same name released in 1982. Michael Jackson also released an extended video version that contains approximately 11:00 of recorded music (with the overall video lasting for approximately 14 minutes). From our contact with previous Guinness World Record™ holders for this Record, it was apparent that the only version that had been previously recognized for a record attempt was the USA recorded version of 5:58. While one could foresee a group attempting to dance to the entire 11:00 video version, there is no version of this music that lasts for only 2:39. However, it is apparent that the mass participation dancing in the Mexico Attempt only lasted for 2:39. (see the attached list of uploaded videos showing the length of the dance for the Mexico Attempt)

Specific Guideline #3 – All participants must dance from the start to the end of the song.

The videos that captured the Mexico Attempt show clearly when the group dancing began, which was in the middle of the “video” version of the Thriller song. There is a specific posting of the Mexico Attempt (which can be located at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNR7J4-X0vE) where you can see the dance being performed by a single individual while the rest of the dancers look on while laying on the ground during the entire first portion of the Thriller song. This would indicate that all participants of the Mexico attempt did not dance from “the start to the end of the song.” The amount of the song that was actually danced by the crowd of people at the Mexico Attempt was only approximately 2:39.

As stated above, the original Michael Jackson “Thriller” (USA) song was recorded for a length of 5:58. This would indicate that the mass of individuals for the Mexico attempt only participated for less than half of the time required to dance to the Michael Jackson “Thriller” (USA) song. As further evidence that the Guidelines were intended to require a start to finish dancing program of 5:58, on September 4, 2009 (prior to the Attempt), the Organizer received guidance from Marco Frigatti at GWR that for the Record GWR “would like you to dance the thriller dance throughout the original single of 5:58.” (see attached email).

This raises great concerns that either the Mexico Attempt was conducted under different Guidelines than were received by the Organizer, or that GWR erred in the interpretation of the Guidelines with respect to the Mexico Attempt. This is of great concern to the Organizer and the DragonCon convention staff, and we believe that this has the potential to damage the goodwill and reputation of GWR.

As required by the Guidelines (see the first paragraph of the instructions), the Organizer shared the specific Guidelines with all nine hundred and three actual participants (and close to one thousand others who registered but did not complete the Attempt). These Guidelines were widely discussed, and it was frequently mentioned to these participants that GWR guidance stated that the dance must last for 5:58. In today’s world with omnipresent social media and Internet videos, it was well known by all participants that the Mexico Attempt did not last for 5:58.

If GWR continues with the current recognition of the Mexico Attempt for the Record, we believe there will be irreparable harm to the GWR reputation in our region (including potentially the media outlets that covered the Atlanta Attempt such as CNN, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the Associated Press, and the Huffington Post.). Additionally, while the original intention of the DragonCon convention staff was to make an annual event of attempting to break a Guinness World Record™, the convention would be unwilling to make any future attempts if there are concerns that even after spending close to $1,000 that GWR cannot be relied on to follow their own rules and guidelines.

It is understandable that GWR would like to recognize the incredible enthusiasm from Mexico City that resulted in over 13,000 individuals dancing to a portion of the "Thriller" song. However, GWR has always stood for strict adherence to rules and guidelines, and this reputation for exactness is what makes a GWR record so valuable and sought after. A compromise solution would allow GWR to recognize the Mexico City enthusiasm and retain the well earned reputation for excellence that GWR has developed.

Many GWR records have multiple formats or changed conditions that make an otherwise similar activity a new record category. As an example, even in the realm of mass participation dancing to Michael Jackson’s Thriller, there are two different categories – one for mass participation in a single location and one for mass participation in multiple locations. What we would like to suggest is that GWR create a separate category for mass participation in dancing to Michael Jackson’s Thriller based on which version of the song is performed. The “short form” dance could be for the 2:39 section of the music video, while the “long form” can be for the previously recognized 5:58 recorded version. This would allow GWR to continue to recognize the Mexico Attempt without losing any reputation or goodwill that would occur from allowing a large group to contravene specific guidelines for a record attempt.

In the last decade, the way information, news and events are communicated around the world have changed greatly. While it would have been impossible for individuals around the world to witness the Mexico Attempt in the past, with the Internet the possibility to witness these events improves and the ability of individuals to audit GWR’s decisions to award records increases. We believe that in this new world, GWR must be even more critically following its established guidelines to maintain the intangible international goodwill that gives a GWR record its value. This compromise can restore that guideline integrity for GWR, and at the same time continue to spread the enthusiasm for GWR records throughout the world.

I am requesting that GWR send the Organizer a response to this letter, as the Organizer cannot make a decision on incurring the additional expenses in sending the documents serving as evidence of the attempt without an answer to the questions posed herein. Having paid the fee for the GWR Fast Track Service, we expect that there may be some response to this letter within that timeframe.

Thank you for your attention to these matters, and we do hope that there will be an opportunity to participate in additional GWR attempts in the future.

Sincerely,

Mark C. McDermott, Esq

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     Since this letter was sent, Kimber has been informed that she should be expecting another email shortly. What this letter will say, we do not know. However, we wait. Patiently.

WHAT WE DO NOW

    What DO we do now? WAIT. The simple answer is to WAIT. For the time being, take the higher ground. Kimber is trying to politely negotiate and give Guinness a way out of this. Everyone agrees that Mexico does indeed deserve some sort of recognition, but that recognition should not be for the record we set on September 6th, 2009. Please do not post, blog, write Guinness, or do anything at all until we are totally and completely denied. Once Guinness has completely shut the door on us, then you may cause a ruckus as much as you want. Until then, wait. Be patient.

 

CONCLUSION

    It's only fitting that controversy follow Michael Jackson even after his death. We followed the rules and guidelines 100%, whereas a lot of the lines were blurred in the Mexico attempt. While we may be discouraged for just a moment by Guinness' ruling, we remain happy and positive. The most important thing here was not to beat a world record, but to have a blast. The real challenge was not to beat the world record, but to pull together 903 people, teach complicated choreography, and execute the dance in less than three hours. THAT was the real challenge and we were very successful in doing so! So, while this may sound like a very cliché "we gave it our best shot" speech, it's not. We genuinely had the time of our lives while bringing together people from all countries, not just one. This by no means will stop us from future Guinness attempts or silly gatherings to accomplish the unthinkable and raise a little money for charity along the way.

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